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Faith, Hope and Charity
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Written by Merv   
Thursday, 14 June 2007
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POSTER16_1.jpgTwo years ago some of the best flight-sim machinima filmmakers out there got together and decided to produce a machinima film together. As we consolidated our talents and began working our project grew bigger and bigger. We believe this movie will be of one of the highest quality, if not most ambitious, machinima works done to date. The movie tops 1 hour in length!

By Russell 'Joe90' Boyd on behalf of Wingmen Productions

{stage6 id=1321297}


Download from FileFront

For more information and other download sites follow these links.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/65710358/m/2261004765

Wingmen Productions are happy to offer a full DVD copy with added extras, for this information and to make donations please follow this link.

http://www.wingmenproductions.com/content/movie.html

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Simanticus  - Very nicely done...but...it ne   |71.231.39.xxx |2007-06-16 23:59:36
I really liked the soulful narrative and the aerial footage and the pre-rendered cutscenes, but it was lacking one important element: Actors!

We never really get a chance to see Faith, Hope & Charity and after awhile it starts to feel like "talking airplanes".

It would be nice if you guys go back to production and use those great poser or Sims or some actor models and do some cockpit close-ups on greenscreen.

Have the guys actually going to that PUB and kickin' it. Let us get to KNOW these guys so we can sympathize with their cause.

I'll give it a heartfelt 4 stars, but really consider letting us see the guys. I thought for sure you would when I saw the nice photo-album and home.
Simanticus  - C'mon you guys...this is wron   |71.231.39.xxx |2007-06-17 18:13:34
You guys are terrible! C'mon, these guys spent a lot of time working on this. It's just WRONG for people to view a free video and not even say thanks or leave a comment.

230 views and only 1 comment and rating. What's wrong with those numbers?

That's the least we can do for these producers who are giving away their hard work for free.

Pay them with a comment, rather good, bad or ugly - it cost you nothing.
tfogas   |2007-06-17 18:26:51
I had the pleasure of watching part of the movie before the acual release time .. but held off to view the full movie until late last night. I was able to let "The Girls" Faith Hope & Charity wash over me.

As I watched the movie I rated the many aspects of the movie.

Credits 10/10

Music 9/10

Visual effects 12/10

Animations 10/10

Screenplay 10/10

Historical content 9/10

Cinematography 10/10

Battle scenes 10/10

Sound effects 10/10

Italian fighter pilot 1/10

Voice acting 7/10

Skins 10/10

Malta map 10/10

Drama 8/10

Production 10/10

Editing 10/10

Gerorge Burges a friggin hero

End Credits 10/10

Over all a fantastic movie made with a game engine that has many limits.

Thanks for bringing it to GzT lads.
Canuck   |2007-06-17 18:39:48
This is a massively ambitious undertaking by Russel Boyd and his team. They have created an important record of courage, that honors the heros of this amazing true story.
The original scores by Bob Van Natter and James Thorpe are the strongest and best scores I have ever heard in Machinima movies.
Faith, Hope and Charity is an immense achievement, once again raising the bar for machinima to new levels.
triniscourge   |2007-06-17 20:18:46
wow! these guys are the creme de la creme of machinima!
One of the, if not the best, IL2 picture of all time.
It definitely has my vote for picture of the year

Excellent work gentlemen!!!
[OMO]HairPlug   |2007-06-17 21:55:49
OMG! Best machinima i have ever seen! Bravo! Scores a 10/10 in all catagories for me!! The work is astounding.Awsome graphics!Awsome music!Awsome camrea work, not to mention the hrs it took to watch the footage and choose the right angles for the shots.
I don't think it could of been done any better.
MANIAC~VVV~   |2007-06-18 01:03:35
What a great story! The tremendous effort of the FHC team is obvious in this film. The sheer scope of what they set out to accomplish and the fact that they pulled it off. This is a must see and a look into the future of team Machinima.

Mr Wallace's Screenplay for Faith, Hope and Charity is dead on and inspiring. What a story!

The original score done for this film is amazing, hats off to Mr Natter and Mr Thorpe for their great efforts at making the music soundtrack something special.

Many thanks to Wingman Productions and everyone on the team for giving us Faith, Hope and Charity!
Woody   |67.185.14.xxx |2007-06-18 01:57:03
Wow. Thats really all I can say. That was absolutely incredible. Although there were some things here and there, it turned out amazing. I particularly liked the voice acting of the tower guy. He was really good, prolly didn't get recognized though. The camera shots were amazing as well. Unfortunately, the older game graphics were a little disheartening, but still, it was an absolutely amazing production.
Joe90   |2007-06-18 03:12:17
Hi Guys, we all really appreciate the praise. It's what makes it all worth while to see your work appreciated!

Yes we did do all this for free, and for the community, it's our hobby.

We also decided, half way through the production, that we would ask for voluntary contributions as maybe some pay back for the hard work. Completely voluntary! We also realised that some may be intertested in a quality DVD with extras. For both these, please see http://www.wingmenproductions.com/content/movie.html
Joe90   |2007-06-18 03:51:48
hey Gas, humph, what do you mean 'Voice acting 7/10'. That's it, I'm off to see my agent, luvvie.

lol, aye, we know we are not professional actors. Some of those lines still make me wince
tfogas  - Voice acting   |2007-06-18 05:20:37
We all hate the sound of our own voices .. I did some try outs for a couple of movies lately for the first one just playing it back to myself was enough for the recordings to hit the dustie bin.

For the next try out the recordings did not make the cut as I expected though it seems I may be called on again for some other job. Apparently I sound like the skidding of tires on a wet road.

I gave you lot 7/10 .. my voice would not get 2/10 on a good day.

So please don't get in a powder puff Joe cos I like you. (Gas slaps Joe on the shoulder like Stanly Baxter) "Oh you are awefull"
StRuPiE   |2007-06-18 14:37:22
Overall rating: 7/10

Well, first of all, let me congratulate this team for their tremendous hard work. It must have been a difficult task to get as many as 20 people all working together on the same project. And I must say they have created a true piece of art! It's another fine example showing the magic of machinima. Something we can all hope for to see more in the future.

Now let me reflect on the movie itself. I'll have to be honest. I'm no fan of flightsim movies and although I have seen a few (mostly the featured movies on GT) I was not convinced thus far. The adventures of Bill & John and MonteyDan's movies were one of the few exceptions.

I saw the movie saturday night and was afraid not going to sit through a one hour flightsim machinima. But I was wrong. In fact, I saw it a second time sunday morning. And by watching it the second time I paid alot more attention to the details which I will be discussing now.

- Story: It's been a long time since a story could catch my interest. This must be one of the finest historical event to script conversions I have ever seen. I have nothing but praise for the people responsible for this. The script was really well prepared and one of the strongest points of this movie. The last 15 mins of the movie were just brilliant! It kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time. Hats off!

- Cinematography: The camerawork was awesome, I've seen alot of cool shots which easily could have been made for a television show. Although it seemed to me as if some of the dogfighting shots were exact copies from previous ones. I do understand the nature of such complex scenes but a bit of diversity could have helped making the scenes more unique. Also, the difference in editing styles between the several directors is sometimes noticable. Especially the scenes with extreme shake and blur stood out from the rest. The pace of the movie was ok, no fast cuts and flashes between shots as you can see in many action packed movies nowadays. The addition of colors, lighting and other visually enhanced imagery was ok, surely not overused. Sometimes I got the feeling the scenes could have been (visually) better if the colors were a bit stronger, more orange/red for the sunset or sunrise, the addition of lightrays (only a few scenes if I remember correctly) and so on.

- 3D modeling: I can imagine lots of work must have gone into this. The 3D models were decent, technically almost perfect. I liked the transitions from past to present because it resulted in a moment of relieve and it was carefully chosen. The 3D elements and ingame footage were smoothly composited, a few explosions could have been better though and I don't think it was necessary to show the explosion of Timber's plane 4 times in a row, maybe the use of slowmo could have changed the emotional awareness. Personally, I felt little emotion at that point while it should be the most dramatic moment of the movie.

- Soundfx: I'm sorry to say but this was a serious let down for me. I was hoping for a superb soundtrack, rich of bass and high quality sounds. But it's quite the opposite, I felt that most of the sounds were lower quality and repetitive. I know it was not an easy task but in all honesty, it should have been better. Especially the sounds of the engines should have been filled with bass, instead it sounded too flat. The sounds of the spitfires were the only highlight. The ambience sounds should also have been placed more in the foreground, like wind and sea, thunder and lightning. If there's one thing I was dissapointed about the most, it's the overall quality of the sound.

- Music: The soundfx was a big dissapointement but so much bigger was the surprise when I heard the music. I will make a statement that you guys can pretty well put on your site ;). This is the best original score I have ever heard in a machinima/amateur movie so far. I'm a fanatic score collector for years and I have gained alot of knowledge in that department, I think I have the ability to distinguish good and bad scores, what works in movies and what doesn't. And trust me guys, this score fits the movie perfectly! Your composers have made a wonderful choise in music styles, the drumbeats, the choir, the use of localized instruments, it all blends perfectly, just what a good warmovie needs. What this score does for FHC, the same thing Zimmer did for The Thin Red Line, on a bigger scale ofcourse ;). Seriously, the composers are really talented and definitely should aim for a big project. The dramatic piece at the end of the movie when the narrator talks is just brilliant! I can go on and on about the music but I think I've praised these guys enough for now ;).

- Voiceacting: Well what to say, it looks like again alot of effort has been put into this. And I'm sure it was difficult to voiceact a one hour movie, especially when your characters are planes. In my opinion it could have been more personal with real physical characters in the planes instead of putting voicecovers as an extra to the external view of the planes. Although it might not have been possible with the game engine, maybe a 3D solution could have been an option. The second time I watched the movie I had less difficulties with this, but the first time it really took my attention of the action. There's also a lack of emotion in the voices, I don't remember someone screaming or simply changing the tone of his voice, something to expect being in the middle of a battle for life or death. It's another good effort but a bit of a let down.

I hope you guys take these comments at heart, I've tried to be as constructive as possible. I don't want to sound as a smartass, besides... who am I to judge.
I can only praise the work you guys have done, machinima at it's best. Hopefully we'll see more projects like this in the future. The last thing I will say is... Two thumbs up! Best flightsim machinima I have seen.

Cheers,

StRuPiE
Solid_Snake  - I.....I have no words   |2007-06-18 14:24:56
I dont know what to say....
This is may.... no... this is the best Machinema movie ever made! This movie made Burning Sand look like litle girls!
I just love you guys who made this movie! its the only movie (so far) I've givne 12/10! this was just great. Cant
describe my feelings for this! its just.... man! now I cant sleep tonight!
Only suitable word: This movie will make you cry, its so bloody good!

Love Snake ;)
Smiley_ie   |2007-06-18 17:41:12
Nice job, Well done on getting such a big project finished.
Have to say i found it a bit to long and after a while alot of the shots seemed very much the same. I think the main problem with a project this size was there was no face's on the character's. Good script but there was no emotion in the voice's !
Well directed, edited, the sfx could have being a better and some nice music peaces.
Overall 7 - 10
Good job.
310thFalcon   |2007-06-22 17:31:26
StRuPiE wrote:
Quote:
- Soundfx: I'm sorry to say but this was a serious let down for me. I was hoping for a superb soundtrack, rich of bass and high quality sounds. But it's quite the opposite, I felt that most of the sounds were lower quality and repetitive. I know it was not an easy task but in all honesty, it should have been better. Especially the sounds of the engines should have been filled with bass, instead it sounded too flat. The sounds of the spitfires were the only highlight. The ambience sounds should also have been placed more in the foreground, like wind and sea, thunder and lightning. If there's one thing I was dissapointed about the most, it's the overall quality of the sound.


Thanks for your critiqued and comments on SFX side. Sorry you were very disappointed with what my fellow Wingmen's and I put together on the SFX side of the movie.

As far the SFX sounds...most if not all of the aircraft sounds in the film are from REAL Hurricanes, AT-6 Texan's, and of course there is no flying Gloster Gladiator around anymore, so I had to use a REAL Stearman PT-17 for the Gladiator engine sounds clips. It is very hard to find, search, or buy any sound tracks of these very old aircraft types.

Ideality...when Hollywood Professional Sound Enginers mix a soundtrack..it is very common for battle scenes not to have any music at all!
Just listened to scenes from "Gladiator," "Tora, Tora, Tora," "Patton," or "Saving Ryan's Privates."
It has very little music in it during battle scenes. Usually are nothing more but sound FX (SFX), and again dialogue.

In this film...most of the SFX sound were lower and muffled down alittle to fit within an balance's of dialogue, SFX, and soundtrack.

Again thank you for your comments...I'll take them and try to become even better the next time around.

Thank you and Best Regards


Michael (310thFalcon) Lockhart
MrVH   |2007-06-19 00:05:07
Thanks so much for your review StRuPiE and I am so glad that you enjoyed our "little" movie .

Glad you liked the screenplay. Bruce Wallace's adaption from history to screenplay brought out the drama of the occasion and without it we wouldn't have had anything to film now would we .

Kudos to all the directors and how they were able to impart their own visions in to the project. I'll take it on the chin for all the camera shakes, snap zooms, focus pulling, etc those were all my fault . I'm greatly influenced by the camera work on Battlestar Galactica as it gives a bit more 'harsh reality' to look of the camera, but will admit the camera knocking may have been a bit much at times. I think you can see our groups 'polish' work it's way through this movie as we also grew in our skills as the production progressed.

Glad to see that you liked, or at least were not turned off by, the 3D modeling. That was one of my areas of responsibility and challenging one at that! There are many mistakes I am sure that you could see... such as the record spinning backwards. I found the lighting and texturing to be the biggest challenge. You can make that just way too realistic in today's 3D packages and I tried to match/balance the cut scenes with the game engine footage. This project really helped me push my 3D modeling which I had only started a month or two earlier so I am very grateful for that.

The sound FX... as with the other post-processing I think there is a progression in quality with the sounds FX through the movie. The sounds in Scenes 7 forward to the end are just smashing good in my opinion. Again, working with sounds that have been recorded in less than perfect scenerios does not help much at all. I think this movie has one of the best sound FX tracks of any flightsim machinima films out there. The sheer scope of it is enough to make me quiver in the face of the job and I top my hat to Falcon and BlackAce for even taking the job on. Having just pre-screened the film on DVD in the higher quality format I would say that I believe the compression of the soundtrack to 192kb/s MP3 is partially at fault for the reduced dynamics in the SFX. The full highquality render felt richer, deeper, and fuller.

The score... can't thank you enough for your kind words. This was a labour of love for me personally as I know it was for BlackAce as well. When we first started talking about having a custom score, I am ashamed to admit, it felt a little daunting. I've been a musician for most of my life (piano at 7, etc) and have composed and performed some pieces (coffeehouse type stuff), but anything orchestral was way out of my league. I am eternally grateful to the members of this team for allowing BlackAce and myself the freedom and space we needed to write this 'musical narrative'. We both grew as artists through this project and it has spawned a forward moving love of score creation that I am sure will not end with this project. While there are mistakes a plenty here as well, I thank you for you appreciation of what we did, your comparison to Zimmer notwithstanding ;) .

The voice acting... again, we're not professionals, in fact, I don't think I would be too far wrong to say that this may have been the first 'acting gig' for most of our stars. I can imagine that "Acting" to a microphone set up on your computer desk, to no video, and only a piece of paper in front of your is daunting enough to professionals and for our guys to even be able to read the lines with any sort of comprehension is most likely more than I could do myself... it's why you don't hear my voice anywhere at all... we didn't want people flailing for their 'mute' buttons . It would have been great to be able to have some kind of human characters in our film. Unfortunately there are none of worth in the game engine and 3D animated characters were beyond my scope at that time... perhaps in a future endeavour .

Again, I really do want to thank you for taking the time to write your review... you didn't have to, and I, along with the rest of our production team I'm sure, thank you.

Salut!

Bob (MrVH) Van Natter
StRuPiE   |2007-06-19 06:54:08
Hi guys,

@ 310thFalcon
You don't have to explain the whole process of creating the soundtrack, really you don't. I understand perfectly what difficulties you must have faced during the course of this project. And I know it's not an easy task to find good sounds. I don't expect you to be paying for professional soundlibraries because for a project without budget that's just off limits. I just want to give you my insights so you can maybe learn from it in a future endeavour. It's ofcourse easy to say, the sound is bad, period. It's pointless to give comments like that. It's easier for you to know where things could have been better.

Although you have balanced your sounds to match the music and voices, I still think you should have added alot more bass to it. I know I would have rated this movie much higher if the sounds were blowing me away. In my opinion a movie depends most on soundfx and music, the visual department comes second place. If you can find the right balance, which is one of the biggest challenges, you definitely have a winner.

I'm very glad to hear that the DVD will have superior sound and image quality. But for now I have to judge on what's available to me.

@ MrVH
It looks to me as if you're involved in pretty much every aspect in this production, something I really admire! I imagine you must have felt much responsability for the outcome of this movie. And again, you did an amazing job on the music and I really hope I can get my hands on the soundtrack. I would die to work with semi-professional composers as yourself. So would you be interested in composing an original score for SoF? Hah, you didn't see that coming did you? Nah, just kidding, you must be exhausted after all the hard work you've done the last couple of years. Now take that trip to Hawaii and relax the next 2 months. ;)

Well anyways, thanks guys for appreciating my comments. And oh, it's not in my intentions to bash you Falcon, just remember... you learn by trial and error, nobody's perfect.

Greets,

StRuPiE
Monty Dan   |2007-06-19 06:23:58
Great review and comments from both sides, this is exactly the sort of banter that should be happening on a movie of this scale

I know we all appreciate the time taken by you Strupie to write these posts, many thanks indeed

Monty-Dan
310thFalcon   |2007-06-19 07:08:19
Quote:
I just want to give you my insights so you can maybe learn from it in a future endeavour.

Agree..that is what I want also.

Quote:
Although you have balanced your sounds to match the music and voices, I still think you should have added alot more bass to it.


I will look into the more bass idea. Understand...this was not my film.

If it was my movie...the SFX would have been much better...

Quote:
And oh, it's not in my intentions to bash you Falcon, just remember... you learn by trial and error, nobody's perfect.


None taken StRuPiE.

By the way...are you a film maker, special effect, CGI, or Sound SFX Engineer?
If so..I would love to see your work.

Quote:
The sounds in Scenes 7 forward to the end are just smashing good in my opinion. Again, working with sounds that have been recorded in less than perfect scenerios does not help much at all. I think this movie has one of the best sound FX tracks of any flightsim machinima films out there. The sheer scope of it is enough to make me quiver in the face of the job and I top my hat to Falcon and BlackAce for even taking the job on

Thanks VH for the great comments

Best Regards
MANIAC~VVV~  - re:   |2007-06-19 08:16:14
Monty Dan wrote:
Great review and comments from both sides, this is exactly the sort of banter that should be happening on a movie of this scale

I know we all appreciate the time taken by you Strupie to write these posts, many thanks indeed

Monty-Dan


That about sums it up perfectly
StRuPiE  - re:   |2007-06-19 08:37:23
310thFalcon wrote:
By the way...are you a film maker, special effect, CGI, or Sound SFX Engineer?
If so..I would love to see your work.


Yes I am, not professional though. I worked on a machinima called The Fallen One. It's a movie created in Battlefield Vietnam. It's a short story and we did it 2 years ago, so the engine may look outdated.

Currently we are working on another movie, Sands of Fire (Battlefield 2). I'm responsable for a few aspects in this movie, which includes the story, the recordings, the editing and the music. Little_donkey (my partner on SoF) is specialized in 3D modeling and compositing, he works on the visuals of this movie. He's also responsable for the editing and the final sound mix. But it's a tense collaboration between the 2 of us and we're constantly introducing new ideas to each other, we never deceide something on our own.

We're almost working for 2 years now on this project and we're still not finished. We're getting there though.

If you want to take a glimpse at what we're doing, you can read our blog at http://www.digital-warriors.be which is currently updated once a month.

I hope this satisfied your question!

StRuPiE
310thFalcon   |2007-06-19 17:52:13
Quote:
Little_Donkey

Didn't Little Donkey make some movies using Lock-on?

And yes StRuRiE...thanks for the link.


Best Regards
StRuPiE   |2007-06-20 01:45:31
Yes, Litlle_donkey made a movie in Lock-on called 'Unleash Hell'. It was before he started to work on The Fallen One.

For Sands of Fire we will have a mix of footage from Battlefield 2 and Lock-on. But it will be a small part only.
InsaneDuude   |68.34.147.xxx |2007-06-20 14:38:18
Fantastic video. After watching it, i couldn't resist getting on IL2.
Thanks!
Anonymous   |68.108.54.xxx |2007-06-21 14:54:53
Announcement:

"Faith, Hope, and Charity" has been awarded not just one, but two Golden OLEGs!!

Awarded the Golden OLEG for being the best Epic flight sim machinima movie yet to be produced.
http://members.cox.net/wasaf2000/TheOleg.jpg

Awarded an unprecedented second Golden OLEG for the combined creative and technical efforts of a dozen movie makers, particularly for direction, editing, CGI, musical score, sound effects, and screenwriting.
http://members.cox.net/wasaf2000/TheOleg.jpg


Note: The OLEG is an award given to select Flight Sim Machinima movies which use the IL2-Forgotten Battles-Pacific Fighters PC Flight Simulation series as the engine for generating the images.
This series was created by the Maddox 1C Company, located in Russia, headed by Mr. Oleg Maddox. This award was created in honour of Mr. Maddox.
A panel of Flight Sim Machinima producers, directors, and others review all submitted Flight Sim Machinima movies and provide recommendations as to the inclusion of each movie on the Flight Sim Machinima site and, whenever it seems warranted, the panel submits recommendations for the award of an OLEG for particularly outstanding achievements in some aspect of the production of Flight Sim Machinima.

"Faith, Hope, and Charity" has been honored by placement on the Flight Sim Machinima Website with the greatest Flightsim movies, past and present.
Visit FlightSimMachinima
Mr Sarkey  - Faith Hope and Charity   |2007-06-23 11:24:42
Excellent, what a story! And its about Brits! 10/10
Anonymous   |68.108.54.xxx |2007-06-26 17:12:19
bump
GL2  - re:   |2007-06-30 03:26:26
Thank you to all who have taken the time to post feedback on this film. When you give something away for free, feedback is the only payment you ever see. It's nice to hear what people think, even if some of the feedback is constructive criticism. Discussing the good, the bad and the ugly is part of the fun of releasing a film.

StRuPiE, thank you for your detailed feedback. I know others from Wingmen Productions have responded to some of your comments already, but I thought I'd add some thoughts of my own. We do appreciate it when people take the time to comment on so many aspects of the film and are pleased with your favorable comments. I'll address some of your niggles below.

StRuPiE wrote:
Story: This must be one of the finest historical event to script conversions I have ever seen.


Bruce Wallace did a fantastic job with the screenplay. He gave each of the characters a distinct personality and provided the viewer with much more than just combat chatter. Through his dialogue, you really feel like you get to know the characters on some level.


Quote:
- Cinematography: Although it seemed to me as if some of the dogfighting shots were exact copies from previous ones.


No shots were used more than once in this film, except for maybe in the guncam footage at the end, which was made (appropriately) using some of the actual combat video. If some of the shots seemed to be duplicates, that's just a result of seeing nothing but planes in the film. It is hard to find fresh angles sometimes, although I think the directors succeeded wonderfully in keeping their cinematography interesting. There were six directors who worked on this, and each one captured their own video, so there was no sharing of video between them.

We realized early on that seeing battle after battle might get redundant, so to give some visual variety, we changed the situation in several of the battles. The battles take place at different times of day to light the battles differently. Also, the enemy planes involved vary somewhat. Lastly, altitude was changed so that you're not always just looking at blue sky. I think the directors milked the game engine for all it was worth.

Quote:
Also, the difference in editing styles between the several directors is sometimes noticable. Especially the scenes with extreme shake and blur stood out from the rest.


The same person (MrVH) handled all of the camera shake (motionsketching) and zooming/blurring in the film, so there should be consistency in the style of those visual effects. I really think the editing of the video in the rest of the film is very consistent. The length of the shots was also quite consistent throughout the film. I guess what I'm saying is I disagree with you on this point. ;)


Quote:
Sometimes I got the feeling the scenes could have been (visually) better if the colors were a bit stronger, more orange/red for the sunset or sunrise, the addition of lightrays (only a few scenes if I remember correctly) and so on.


We decided early on to desaturate the colors. As you know if you play the game, the in-game colors are much stronger. We were copying other films like Saving Private Ryan by desaturating, although we didn't desaturate to that degree.

Color correction is an art in itself, and there is a lot to be learned in our community about how best to do this. There are some tweaks I would have liked to have made in this department, but we did the best we could with what we know about this subject. Future films, I'm sure, will explore the possibilities more.

Quote:
3D modeling: I don't think it was necessary to show the explosion of Timber's plane 4 times in a row, maybe the use of slowmo could have changed the emotional awareness.


We discussed the number of replays to use there, and, as I recall, I voted to cut it down by one to three. In the end, our group decided to go with what we have, which I think still works quite well.


Quote:
Soundfx: I'm sorry to say but this was a serious let down for me.


Falcon applied the sound effects to the video, and BlackAce balanced the soundtrack. Getting the sound mix right was much harder than I expected it to be, and I think BlackAce did a great job. It's really a subtle art to balance out dialogue, sound effects and dialogue. Believe me, we agonized over the sound mix. In fact, with less than a week to go to our target release date, and with the film entirely rendered and ready for uploading, we decided at the last minute to redo the mix and render the film again.

What you have to remember is that not all films have music during the action, as Falcon pointed out. Our film has more of a swashbuckler feel--the music plays along with the action. That means sound effects and music are competing almost every moment. You can't always have in-your-face sound FX if you have music, too. I think we got a great mix in the end, although I can appreciate the perspective that the music should have been dropped in spots. It's a case of different strokes for different folks.

Something else that needs to be pointed out is that you're likely listening to this film through low-quality computer speakers. I've heard it through an expensive pair of high-end headphones, and it sounds great.

As MrVH pointed out, this film has been compressed more than what you hear with a DVD. The original sound files that Falcon used are excellent. Most are CD quality. You're not likely to find many machinima films that are made with better quality sound files.

So, when you combine the fact that this film has been compressed with the fact that we have music and sound effects essentially from start to finish, I think the mix BA created is the best compromise. And really, that's what every sound mix in every movie is--a compromise of the variouis competing sound tracks.

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Music: This is the best original score I have ever heard in a machinima/amateur movie so far.


I couldn't agree more. MrVH and BA basically spent the entire two years learning how to use the sophisticated music software they used and practicing composing. The results are superb.


Quote:
Voiceacting: In my opinion it could have been more personal with real physical characters in the planes instead of putting voicecovers as an extra to the external view of the planes. Although it might not have been possible with the game engine, maybe a 3D solution could have been an option.


Early on, we decided not to attempt to use bluescreen live-action actors. It would have been way too difficult. Our team (and voiceactors) is spread all over the world. Each actor in each respective country would need a camcorder, bluescreen, the same lights, uniforms and props, etc, etc. It's not impossible, but to go that route would have been several orders of magnitude more complicated than what we did. We choose not to show the in-game pilots because the graphics for the pilots is so cheesy looking. It is a little weird never seeing the pilot's faces, but we tried to make up for that in other ways (I won't give away how, but those who have seen the film will know what I'm talking about). I do think you get used to it, though, after you've seen a few IL-2 films.


Quote:
I hope you guys take these comments at heart, I've tried to be as constructive as possible. I don't want to sound as a smartass, besides... who am I to judge.


Not at all! Your comments are very much appreciated. We'd love to hear more like them from anyone else who would like to comment on different aspects of the film. Thanks for taking the time to do so! And thank you for the praise for the film.
tfogas  - Definitive test   |2007-07-02 09:59:23
Having copied the movie to a DVD disk I invited my wife and mother-in-law to sit and watch the movie with me. I offered no intro or information although my wife knows my interests in machinima.
Both sat through the movie in silence watching avidly .. at the moment of George's inpending doom via the 30 i-tie fighters both lady's reached for the hankie's, then to my utter amazment at the time of the award's when George hands over his medal .. bloodyhell .. I had to as well, three sobing great blobs sitting on the sofa.
Once again I hail all who created this masterpiece, it surely is a machinima work of art.
I thankyou all for the two years you all spent on this.
Anonymous   |68.108.54.xxx |2007-07-02 15:27:01
tfogas

Thanks for the Feedback. It is very rewarding, and we are especially proud that the movie's drama and emotion seems to transcend the Flight Sim and WWII hobbyist communities.

I'd like to ask that you please edit your post adding a Large Bright Red Spoiler Warning, or something similar...just in case forum visitors read down this far before watching the movie, themselves. Unlikely, but possible. Thanks much.

"Wiley" of Wingmen Productions
Canuck   |2007-07-02 15:21:21
Honestly, what Gas posted doesn't give anything away to me. Perhaps for somebody that is very, very familiar with the story it may, but to me, nothing.

If anything it makes it even more interesting to want to watch.
tfogas  - "Wiley" of Wingmen Pro   |2007-07-02 16:44:02
Hey Wiley

Welcome to Gamerztheatre .. hopefully you will take the time to join our membership here and offer some of your machinima making experience.

As to a spoiler on my comment .. I really don't think it is necessary. what little info I offered no way gives the fantastic storyline away. As it's an historical movie based on actual events anyone could look those facts up for reference .. which is what I did before the movie was released. Even then after knowing all those facts and posting some in our forums, did it spoil it for me? .. no, the movie was enjoyable to the last second.

I think you do yourself an injustice .. your movie is if not THE best machinima movie produced it comes a damn close second.

Time for your and your fellow Wingmen Productions chap's pat each other on the back and KNOW .. you did a GREAT job.

BTW .. when are you starting the next production?

Gas

PS I edited out your typo's
GL2   |2007-07-02 22:35:02
Thanks for your comments, Gas. High praise, indeed! Maybe we should sell FH&C hankies with the DVD. ;)

As far as a "next production" goes--I think everyone is waiting for the release of the update to Pacific Fighters, which will be called Storms of War: Battle of Britain. I've seen screenshots, and the graphics are very impressive.
GunnyMac   |2007-07-08 08:40:04
Absolutely an IL2 masterpiece.
WileyCoyote   |2007-08-03 17:18:50
Any new viewers? We'd like to hear more reviews, good or bad. Thanks!
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3.21 Copyright (C) 2007 Alain Georgette / Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Hliva. All rights reserved."
Last Updated ( Tuesday, 17 July 2007 )
 
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